[UA] Cliomancy major charges up for grabs.

Tue Apr 3 23:48:40 PDT 2007

Well, that's some evil thinking there, but I don't think you're quite getting it... the risk of losing a major charge on such a stunt doesn't really balance it out at all ;)

In order to trick the universe, your self, history, and everything else into thinking you've visited the site, a major charge you have gained has to be spent and dice rolled.  Once those dice roll, you no longer have a major charge, it's gone, it's in the air now, it's in the bleeding walls, the cats who all simultaneously scream out at the same time for a ten block radius around you, it's gone into the magic.  If you were successful with the major spell, you are rewarded with a rewritten time, so to speak, in which you had gained a major charge which, mathematically, puts you right back where you started in the first bloody place -just slightly different specifics.  If you fail, well, hells bells, you freakin' deserve losing a major for something that pointless.  At least it was pretty.

Though stealing it from another would be a wonderful way to slap the player for not sharing the stuff he smoked in order to think that doing the above would be a right good idea.  Then again, thinking that completely flies in the face of any form of conventional logic what so ever should be rewarded as that really shows dedication to the mindset of an adept.

Christopher Bedford <xombie-master at hotmail.com> wrote:    P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma }  I suppose the risk of losing a major on such a stunt could very well balance the attempt out, I guess I may still be prone to rule that the character still has to visit the site but with very much less competition.  Of course it is pretty silly because your basically tossing out a major charge even if you succeed.

 Or...

 Perhaps they do gain the charge but end up stripping it from an unknown rival who for some reason knows what has happened to their hard earned major.  Hm, so maybe a very pissed off enemy can be drawn from such a near redundant use of magick.

 -Christopher
 doktor-xombie.livejournal.com

---------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 21:08:12 -0700
From: graver_13x at yahoo.com
Subject: RE: [UA] Cliomancy major charges up for grabs.
To: ua at lists.unknown-armies.com

You forget to every rule, there is an exception... including that rule.  If a player of a cleomancer managed to wrangle up a major charge and then decided, "you know what I'ma gonna do with this, I'm gonna spend it to make my character and the universe believe that I'd gone to Chernobyl and harvested it's charge!  Now, hand me those dice..." then, by golly, I'd let 'em do it... and then kill his character for not sharing what ever the hell he'd been smoking with the rest of us.  ;p

Honestly, in that situation, it wouldn't violate the Law of Transaction.  You wouldn't have used magic to generate magic, you simply shifted it around a bit.  The character would end up with no more charges then they had to begin with and, hell, run the risk of ending up with fewer.  A real dumb assed use of a major, but I guess if one Cliomancer wanted to screw all others vying for a spot's major, I guess that would be one way to do it... a real stupid way, but a valid one.

Christopher Bedford <xombie-master at hotmail.com> wrote:    .ExternalClass P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}  Yeah but wouldn't using a major charge to generate a major charge go against how magick works?  I'd think the only real benefit of convincing the world she was already there is that perhaps it would make her trip in to actually pick up the charge easier because other mancers would just assume that she'd already taken it.

 -Christopher
 doktor-xombie.livejournal.com

---------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 18:08:25 -0700
From: graver_13x at yahoo.com
Subject: RE: [UA] Cliomancy major charges up for grabs.
To: ua at lists.unknown-armies.com

Ya, I'd have to rule that she would actually have to go through the ceremony of visiting the site.  They get their mojo because THEY were there to breath it, touch it, smell it, experiences it.  They become a part of the symbolic worship of the place because, for a second, they are the place as well, and thus, they gain the power that has been focussed onto it.

She could lie all she wanted about being there, make people believe she had been there, but she would have never experience's it for her self, never felt the pressure of a thousand minds upon the place.

However, if she could get her hands on a major charge, she could rewrite history so that she and the universe believed she was there and get that major charge... a fool proof and brilliant plan I say!

Christopher Bedford <xombie-master at hotmail.com> wrote:    .ExternalClass P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}  While it sounds like a neat trick, I can't help but think it wouldn't get the charge unless she backs it up by actually being there too.  Since magic is self powered, it might do little good to convince everyone that she was there.  Unless she knows she was actually there she won't be getting any charges.

I could be wrong, I'm still new to this game for the most part.

 -Christopher
 doktor-xombie.livejournal.com

---------------------------------
 > Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 17:04:08 -0500
> From: isen0011 at umn.edu
> To: ua at lists.unknown-armies.com
> Subject: Re: [UA] Cliomancy major charges up for grabs.
> 
> I wonder - maybe she was a Clio who was trying an inverse grab of the 
> charge. If she _makes_ everyone think that she has been there, does she 
> get the charge? After all, history is just a matter of perception...
> 
> -Shawn
> 
> graver wrote:
> > */Russell Rayburn <rusrayburn at gmail.com>/* wrote:
> >
> > On 4/3/07, Ben Baer wrote:
> > > My links are a bit sketchy sine I haven't seen this in a couple
> > years. Wiki
> > > offers this ". The accuracy of that story has since been
> > questioned, not
> > > least because motorcycles are specifically forbidden inside the
> > 30km reactor
> > > exclusion zone, which can only be accessed through permanently
> > manned
> > > checkpoints. Chernobyl tour guides and tourists to Chernobyl
> > have claimed
> > > that that Filatova visited the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone only as
> > part of an
> > > organized tour.[1] Chernobyl tour guide Yuriy Tatarchuk recalls that
> > > Filatova "booked a tour, wore a leather biker jacket and posed for
> > > pictures." Her website appeared soon after.[2]"
> > > Neil Gaimans Blog, where I first heard about this has some links
> > to the
> > > debunking
> > >
> > http://www.neilgaiman.com/journal/2004/05/fraud-exposed-and-true-thing.asp
> > > including a link to an Urban Exploration forum where they point
> > out the
> > > inconsistencies in her story, and a couple people who have
> > talked with the
> > > Cherynobyl administration, including the guide who gave Elena
> > her tour.
> > >
> >
> > Heard some of that as well, although the counter argument is Filatova
> > bribed her way in to parts of the exclusion zone. When the authorites
> > ( whom she didn't pay off ) started bitching, she supposedly clamed up
> > to avoid getting anyone in trouble.
> >
> > Also, since her bike is in a few of the shots I suspect she made it
> > into a few places. Yeah, it could be photoshopped, but to my unexpert
> > eye it didn't seem so.
> >
> > Inconsistencies could be explained away as poetic license.
> >
> > Not saying I completely buy it, but I don't think there's enough out
> > there for a full debunking either. Obviously, I could have missed
> > something.
> >
> > -- 
> > It takes a village to raise a child,
> > but just a van and a few puppies to catch one.
> >
> > http://blog.myspace.com/cthuloidgunnut
> > _______________________________________________
> > UA mailing list
> > UA at lists.unknown-armies.com
> > http://lists.unknown-armies.com/mailman/listinfo/ua
> >
> > Hrm, real or not real,
> > faked phototos or someone really got all through there with the bike 
> > and all, the real question of importance to the underground would be 
> > this: what are the odds that she her self WAS a cleomancer. Odds 
> > are, she's just who se appears to be and the charge has yet to be 
> > harvested as I'm fairly certain there are more normal people then 
> > there are Cleomancers... at least, I think so *looks around paranoid*
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > 
> 
> -- 
> Shawn Isenhart
> University of Minnesota
> Office of Information Technology
> WBOB 229
> 612-624-7739
> isen0011 at umn.edu
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> UA at lists.unknown-armies.com
> http://lists.unknown-armies.com/mailman/listinfo/ua

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