[UA] Post-postmodern

[Peter Kisner]

I'm not well versed in these movements, so please pardon the fact that
what I'm about to say is pulled directly from my ass.  But this
discussion's been niggling at my mind for the last few days so I feel
compelled to chime in anyway.

* Traditionalism:
The traditional way of accomplishing things is good enough. (ie. the
old stories and meanings are adequate)

* Modernism:
"[Modernism] is a trend of thought that affirms the power of human
beings to create, improve, and reshape their environment, with the aid
of scientific knowledge, technology or practical experimentation.
Modernism encouraged the re-examination of every aspect of existence,
from commerce to philosophy, with the goal of finding that which was
'holding back' progress, and replacing it with new, progressive and
therefore better, ways of reaching the same end."
 - Wikipedia

* Postmodernism
"To be postmodern is to reject the idea of a core centralised
narrative to describe the world."
 - Ben Beaton

"[Postmodernism is associated with] a cultural, intellectual, or
artistic state lacking a clear central hierarchy or organizing
principle and embodying extreme complexity, contradiction, ambiguity,
diversity, and interconnectedness or interreferentiality."
 - Wikipedia


Based on the directions of these movements, and what I see in the
world around me, it doesn't really look like things are on a path back
to tradition.  "New sincerity" might be a relatively accurate way to
look at some aspects of emerging cultures.

Traditionalism used the assumption of "rightness" in the time-tested
way of things as the basis for it's norms.

Modernism questioned the assumption that traditions were best, but
still assumed that there was a "right" way to do things, and tried to
find that right way.

Postmodernism questions the idea that the concept of "right" is even
valid.  As Ben mentioned about "centralized narrative", it sort of
broke this down.

But in my mind what's emerging isn't a return to a centralized
narrative, but a combination of "I'm ok, you're ok" and "wait and see"
positions.

With regard to social interactions and personal meaning, this involves
retaining the value of personal narrative over centralized external
narrative, but without the forced "different for the sake of provoking
a response" attitude associated with postmodernism.  This is the "new
sincerity", the whole "be true to yourself and let others be true to
themselves" attitude.

With regard to the phenomenal world in general I think this involves a
clash and sometimes synthesis of two ideals:

1) Empiricism - Don't try to force meaning on the universe, it has no
meaning except that which you have for it.  Even without inherent
meaning though it still has rules and trends which you can understand
through thorough observation.

2) Whimsy - Ascribe any meaning you want to phenomena, as long as you
don't try to impose this value on others.  Criticizing where someone
else finds meaning is taboo.

I don't really have a good idea of the full impact these trends would
have on the Occult Underground though.  My only guesses would be the
emergence of more and more individualized schools of magic, with
Avatars becoming fewer or less powerful.  And maybe the emergence some
sort of Meta-Adept, whose power derives not from imposing a view on
the universe, but by seeking to observe and understand the forces and
rules that govern all occult powers.

Just idle speculation.

- Peter K.


On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 4:39 AM, Benn Beaton <benn.beaton at gmail.com> wrote:
> Unitarian occultism would be a very interesting approach.  Perhaps if we
> considered some form of Synthesis between the adeptpaths and traditional
> ritual.  Perhaps purely as an NPC conceit.  or what if rather than a full
> blown adept path they minimised the obsession away from studying the full
> blown path and instead have been taught a single spell.  The randomness and
> free nature has been removed in favour of a regimented disciplined approach
> (maybe things like a blood cult that learns the body as a still pond spell
> from epidermimancy)  Throw in some hokey non-traditional buddism and the
> chinese could be in for a shock!
>
> In order to be anti-postmodern the group would need a grand narritive that
> allows for magic.  I think that the best way to simulate this would be with
> existing abilities (possibloy weakened) and a paradigm skill that emphasises
> the disciplined approach.  Perhaps even have the group responsible for
> upgrading rituals?  After all whats a boy to do when a ritual calls for dodo
> blood.
>
> Of coursethis whole idea sounds like a very novel version of a room of
> renunciation.
>
> On 4/6/08, Russell Rayburn <rusrayburn at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sat, Apr 5, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Benn Beaton <benn.beaton at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > To engage in a "new sincerity"
> > > would seem to be a traditionalism and so in occult terms you would have
> a
> > > rise in Authentic Thaumaturgy(sp damn i'm crap) and Avatar use, possibly
> > > both.
> >
> > Seems likely.
> >
> > Given that post-modernism is "weird for the sake of weird", all about
> > the individual perspective, et. al. then a strengthening of more
> > traditional forms seems inevitable in a post-modern world.
> >
> > On the other hand, you could have something like "big tent magic",
> > where "alternative" methods are seen as individual expressions of a
> > fundamental truth ( i.e. magic ).  Sort of like unitarian magic, if
> > you will.  That might preserve the individual perspective and permit
> > disparate groups to work together ( or at least kill each other less
> > ).
> >
> > Hand in hand with a more traditional view of magic might be a
> > persecution of the old order; newly trained authentic thaumaturgists
> > hunting down old dipsomancers and epideromancers might make for an
> > interesting sleeper campaign.
> >
> >
> > --
> > I'm writing an unauthorized autobiography.
> >
> > http://cthuloidgunnut.blogspot.com/
> > _______________________________________________
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> > http://lists.unknown-armies.com/mailman/listinfo/ua
> >
>
>
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